John Jarvis is the man behind Gaming Revolution which has had it's fair share of negative events around them. Unfortunately the Goof Troop gets to add this little event to their resume :-)

Anyways, Oblivion happened to take advantage of the "Live Online Help" feature found the Jarvis Entertainment website. Below is a transcript of the conversation. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do:

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Charles'
Charles: Hello. How can I gelp you?
you: Hello
you: I was just wondering
you: do you guys own Sharky Extreme?
you: hello?
Charles: No we don't
you: so why do you have like the same exact layout?
Charles: I have no idea why but it is changing tomorrow or the next day.
you: who designed it?
Charles: Which one? This one or the new one?
you: the one you have now
Charles: I don't know
you: and whats your position @ JEG?
Charles: Web stuff
you: and you dunno who did the official site?
you: you gotta be kidding me
Charles: Afraid not
you: thats pretty sad,
you: you guys arent doing to well lately are you?
Charles: I was simply given the design by someone else. I have no idea who designed it. We are doing just fine. I must go now.
you: why?
you: your suppose to help me
Charles: You are not asking any questions.
you: yes i am
you: Whats the future of grn?
Charles: I have no idea, I don't do anything with that site.
you: oh i see
you: well tell your boss i said hi
Charles: And who are you?
you: yeh, im actually gonna tell you...

I'm actually the one that discovered the rip-off, earlier today. I emailed both John (got no reply, but I did get a ticket back that he got the email) and Alex (owner of Sharky) and I have yet to get a reply back from him.

I also contacted Charles, and yet got the same reply (" I don't know "). Heh, pretty lame company might I say.

I used to work for them, sadly to say, and I was lied to non-stop, so I finally took the intuitive to leave, which I should have done long before than I had originally left.

Well anyway's, enough rambling, good job, and tell as many people as possible.

Marksman first tipped me off to the layout. I was flabbergasted (sp?) at first but then remembered it was John Jarvis so what else should I expect

---------- Begin ICQ Chat ----------
John.Barker: www.sharkyextreme.com - Looks familiar.
Charles: Yes
John.Barker: Alex is pissed.
Charles: Talk to John
John.Barker: Your site topsites list, and wwwresources has the same design.
Charles: Yes but John owns them too.
Charles: I knew he'd find out. I have a design I made in waiting to be used instead of this one but this way I get to say I told you so to John.
John.Barker: Why not HIRE a designer?
Charles: I have no idea
Charles: Is that guy going to email John?
---------- End ICQ Chat ----------

That we have NO respect in the r6 community and in the gaming community! Why do you need to do this? Are you stupid to take a "WELL KNOWN" site design like "www.sharkyextreme.com" hello?... This makes me a little sick! ;0p <--barfing again!

Why does this need to happen! I'm just glad that it cought someones eye and they reported it to the right ppl!

*Cheers to whoevers the person(s) was the reported!

I could be wrong but I believe that at one point there was a section that was basically a cut and paste with a color scheme change from another popular RS related site about 6 weeks ago.

It isn't fair to say "I think I remember you copying someone's code and changing the colors" without being more specific. Point out exactly where we have copied HTML. I would really like to know.

And now that I am thinking aobut it-- Pie actually doesn't deal with ALL of the Content rips we see. Some of them are blatant rips of our content but slightly rewritten (like taking a long sentance and shortening it and the like) but are not worth the effort to pursue.

------------------

The layout Jarvis DID have was Sharky Extreme with simply the name named. EVERYTHING else was identical. The same can't be said about what you were referring to.

Here is the RS Retreat a few layouts ago and the RS Database site. Of course their are simlarities, the sites cover the same topics but there is no place on those sites that are exactly the same or where the EXACT code has been used. Take a look. Now are you sure you want to stand by those comments being that you probably didn't see the Jarvis site on Saturday when it DID have the exact same Sharky layout and you can see RS-R layouts and RS-D layouts that you are saying are similiar?

The Jarvis site was the way you saw it for quite a few days before you, you being the person who notified you, noticed it. At the time I saw it I thought the same as you regarding it and Sharky Extreme.

Even though I am not a HTML person I do know enough to look at the source code. I compared the source from Sharky and Jarvis and they were very different.

I am sure that you wil not trust me on this but I am not kidding. It may have looked like Sharky but the code was very different.

What I am trying to say, not very well I guess, is that it may have looked like the Sharkey Layout, but the code was NOT the same. Understanding of course that there must be an infinate number of ways of coding a site that will result in similar looks.

Have a nice day,

Mark 'Sherlock' Taylor

Thank you for all your kind comments about GRN!

All I can really say is that I don't know enough about that part of the copyright law to make a comment that I would/could be held to.

I know that 'content' and 'logos' can be copyrighted but I am not sure if a general layout can be. Much like most news magazines TIME, News Week or News Papers have similar or even the same layout or color schemes. Yet the Logos/Trade Marks/Original Content are different.

- Is is against the law to directly copy (with exception to the prior mentioned 'content' and 'logos') a site ?

I am not sure, that is one for the lawyers.

- Is in just something that should not be done?

It seems to me that blatant copying off anothers layout, with knowledge that you did, is wrong.

With all that said it seems that many people now are outsourcing their web design and the owner of a site is no longer the 'layout' person.

Also there are so many sites now that it is getting hard to be original. Gaming sites and other 'Special Interest' sites like 3DR etc can because of the 'personal' touches and subject areas. The people who design those sites normally work at them also, and the talent is shown. They tend also to be labors of love.(Vax and Dune are good examples)

Normal business sites, however, have a mission to present the information in an easy to find, easy to navigate, and clean way. The Yahoo model is widely used by most search/portal sites now, the only real difference being the content and the Yahoo Graphics and Headers.

The web is such a volatile and new place and because of that the rules are still being written. These are the same type questions that are being asked about all facets of the web, Napster is a good example of this.

The idea of what is right vs wrong is blurred in the electronic area, who plays copied disks? swaps music? enters cracks to unlock copied games and other 'infringements'?

These are just my private thoughts, and I may be wrong but I share them because I was asked. The collage I go to is offering an Internet/New Media Law class next semester I may take it.

Thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts,

Have a great day!

Mark 'Sherlock' Taylor

It mostly has to do with morales. It was not morally right to do that.

If I made a site, and you took the concept, but re did the html, and some graphics id take a bat and beat your ass with it, cause it isnt morally right to do something like that.

I think that JEG/GRN has no real morales ripping off 15 years old, site designs and spammming the R6/RS community

And for the layout issue, it is bullshit to steal all graphics, but just change the code. Shit, I bet 99% of people don't go to web pages to check out their code, they look at the damn layout. So who gives a flying f*** if the code is diffrent. Try to be original. And, Snicker is right about JEG's layout. It was exactly like Sharky's, but they took out the header with the name. Then they changed it like 2 days later. Well, thats my rant and damn does it feel good to get it out ..

In no part of my comments did I condone any form of copying. I am glad you caught that.

Have a great day!

Mark 'Sherlock' Taylor

I actually enjoy GRN, I am left on my own and can do my posting and get on with my day. I loved working at 3dr and I had great relationships with everyone, but, some personality conflicts (I was much to blame) and other stuff made it less fun for me.

What I had wanted to do as a hobby started to be like a job, I took it too serious, it was my own fault, and in many ways I wish I had never resigned.

I really needed a break, Going to GRN was premature, I relly wanted a few months off to get my personal life sorted out. But, I started at GRN anyway, except for some 'problems' it has been rather nice just having a post-and-go type job. I have missed all my friends from 3dr, and have been renamed as a Goof Troop Member but all is well.

I manage to stay out of the politics, that is great also.

I stay busy at work and school, and the less of a 'community' at GRN helps me to just do some posts and go.

I am being 'used' ? Well if I am, it is ok because I am using them also, I get to do what I really have started to love: have a byline and have a little place where people come and appreciate what I do.

My best regards to everyone,

Mark 'Sherlock' Taylor

BTW: I am no longer 'Young'. Tee Hee