Jack Handy's are cool though...I haven't read them in while.

*Fitz's Spin*

What Came First. The 3dRetreat or The RS Retreat.

*wonders if that is original enough, yet knows someone will give a answer and miss the point*

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-Fitz (AKA: The Other White Meat)

But you see, it doesnt make sense, you it could be one of those chicken egg things...

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-Fitz (AKA: The Other White Meat)

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-Fitz (AKA: The Other White Meat)

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-Fitz (AKA: The Other White Meat)

quote:

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Originally posted by X17:
If a tree falls over in the forest and no one is there to HEAR it, does it make a sound?

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Ha!!!!! Still a blind man would have to be in the presence of the tree to hear it. So if no one is in the presence of the tree, how do we know it doesnt make a sound.

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-Fitz (AKA: The Other White Meat)

As for the idea of a video recorder, that is very thought provoking, but when you saw the picture of it falling, you would instantly know that an associated sound should be present.

*There's no such thing as gravity. The world sucks.*

Toys do not come "alive" when no one is around. They are inanimate objects and have no life.

The egg came first. The chicken's egg was a natural mutation of it's predecessor parents. This mutation continued through time until we, the eaters of chickens and their eggs, finally decided to name the creature ... and start this philosophical question

And just to set a pre-emptive strike ...

FALSE.

When a tree falls, it creates percussions in the air. It is not until those percussions hit the eardrum and are perceved by the inner ear that they are translated into a sound. Therefore, without someone around, there is no ear. Without an ear to decode the percussions, there is no sound.

TRUE.

The "percussions" you refer to are still sound. Heard or not, they still exist.

Snicker,

Oswald did kill Kennedy. He may not have been alone, but he did kill Kennedy.

It is too easy to take simple facts, derive typical conclutions from those facts and delclare them law also. Realiy is that they are still only typical conclutions.

I don't think the "water in the air analogy" is the same because water does change from a solid, to a liquid, to a gas. Sound doesn't exist in various forms in different places. A vibration simply happens, or it doesn't. The sound is made and if someone is there to hear it, we are aware of it. If not, the vibration, sound, noise, whatever you want to call it STILL HAPPENS, yet the ear is not there to acknowledge it's presence...but it is still a fact that the sound happens. That would be silly to say that just because our ear (a receiver) wasn't there to hear it that the SAME physical properties of the vibrations does happen.

Water in the air is not rain, it hasn't changed its physical properties into a liquid. For sound to happen or traverse through the air, no changes need to happen like in water. If a tree falls, the physical effects of the collision resultin vibrations being sent out. If a human or animal is in range to hear, we can interpret the vibrations, if not...the vibrations die out without being acknowledge BUT THE VIBRATIONS STILL HAPPEN.

[Sound]

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English soun, from Old French son, from Latin sonus, from sonare to sound; akin to Old English swinn melody, Sanskrit svanati it sounds

Date: 13th century

1 a: particular auditory impression : TONE
b: the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing.

Scooby Says:

If there is no ear, there is no sensation to perceive, therefore, no sound.

Vibrations + Ear = Sound

Yes, vibrations can exist without an ear just as an ear can exist without vibrations. The fact is that it takes both objects in the same place at the same time to create the perception we call sound.

According to webster.com:

Main Entry: 3sound
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English soun, from Old French son, from Latin sonus, from sonare to sound; akin to Old English swinn melody, Sanskrit svanati it sounds
Date: 13th century
1 a : a particular auditory impression : TONE b : the sensation perceived by the sense of hearing c : mechanical radiant energy that is transmitted by longitudinal pressure waves in a material medium (as air) and is the objective cause of hearing>

That says to me that sounds travel through the air whether we hear them or not. The actual process of taking sounds/vibrations/whatever out of the air and making some of them with our ears is called hearing. A sound doesn't have to be heard to be a sound.

None the less, you do put up a wonderful debate. I like that.

I think that helps strengthen the point that sound travels through the air and is considered sound even if our ears don't interpret the sound. Other listening devices, dogs ears, can hear the sound which proves that the sound is there

If you close your eyes in a pitch black room, cover them with an opaque blind fold, and I turn on a light ... the light is still there! Your perceiving it is irrelevent.

The reason why people wistle for dogs to come is because it's a high sound, they like high sound (High frequency and VIBRATION). The dog wistle makes a very high sound and vibration that out ears cannot make out, but the dog can. Dogs like it, they come.

Its kinda like PTF paper (or something like that)... if you stick the paper in your mouth, it tastes like paper to me. If other people put it in there mouth, they spit it out because it tastes way too bitter and rubbery. Just because i cant taste it doesnt mean its not there.

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--Wingy:-þ
News Editor
www.3dretreat.com